Chat with Ray Garton
Snutch Talk Live! with Ray Garton
*** (02:01):Welcome to SNUTCH TALK LIVE! , RayGarton.u!
RayGarton.u says to (02:01): Hello, everyone! Sorry if I’m a little late.
ELWilliams.u says (02:06): Well, shall we begin
Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:06): by all means
JohnMantooth.u says to (02:06): Let’s do it
RayGarton.u says to (02:06): I’m at your mercy.
ELWilliams.u says (02:06): Ray Garton lives in Anderson, California with his wife, Dawn, and a brood of cats (some of which have gastro-intestinal distress, it appears). He is the author of innumerable short stories and over 50 books, the first of which, SEDUCTIONS, he sold at the age of twenty. Brian Keene has called him one of the fathers of the Splatterpunk movement
ELWilliams.u says (02:07): In 2006 he received the Grand Master Award of the World Horror Convention. He also currently has two movies in production based on his works.
ELWilliams.u says (02:07): Ray attributes much of his horror background to being raised a Seventh Day Adventist, but his true awakening to the genre occurred when watching THIRTEEN GHOSTS, the 1960 version, as a young child.
ELWilliams.u says (02:07): Also writing YA novels under the name Joseph Locke, Ray has penned such classic horror tomes as LIVE GIRLS, SEX AND VIOLENCE IN HOLLYWOOD and FOLKS. He recently completed the sequel to RAVENOUS, entitled BESTIAL and had begun work on the third book in the FOLKS series.
ELWilliams.u says (02:07): Welcome, Ray
RayGarton.u says to (02:07): Thank you. And I refuse to take even partial blame for Splatterpunk — which was a movement in more ways than one.
ELWilliams.u says (02:08): Ha! Sam, you’re up with the first question.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:09): Ray, a lot of your books use the archetypes of horror – Ravenous w/ werewolves, Live Girls with vampires…some writers try to avoid these tropes, but why have you embraced them so? Is there things you can say using them?
RayGarton.u says to (02:10): Initially, it was those archetypes that first acquainted me with the genre. I grew up watching the old Universal horror movies — Frankenstein, Dracula, The Wolf Man, etc. …
RayGarton.u says to (02:10): I have always loved them, and it was sort of natural that I turned to them when I first started writing. But yes, things can be said with these figures.
RayGarton.u says to (02:11): When I wrote LIVE GIRLS, I was just writing about gorgeous vampires in a peep show and strip joint. But after the book was published, I found that people were crediting me with using vampirism as a metaphor for AIDS.
RayGarton.u says to (02:11): That wasn’t my intention, but hey, if it works, I ain’t gonna complain.
RayGarton.u says to (02:12): I think a lot of writers see these archetypes as old fashioned, dusty, worn out. I think they can be dusted off and updated in fun and exciting ways.
kdespins.u says to (02:15): When it comes to marketing yourself and your work, what methods have you found to work the best?
RayGarton.u says to (02:15): I am SO BAD at marketing myself. Self promotion is not my strong point.
RayGarton.u says to (02:16): I have made an effort to do as much radio as possible whenever a book comes out. Back in the ’80s, I attended a lot of conventions and used them as much as I could. But really, I am awful at that sort of thing.
kdespins.u says to (02:16): yet you manage to sell books…
kdespins.u says to (02:17): you must be doing something right
RayGarton.u says to (02:17): Did you have any marketing specifics in mind?
ELWilliams.u says (02:17): What helped you early in your career, marketing wise?
kdespins.u says to (02:17): are things like web sites, myspace, etc., worth the time and effort…to be more specific
RayGarton.u says to (02:17): Luck helped a GREAT DEAL. Here’s the process by which I sold my first novel.
RayGarton.u says to (02:19): My then-girlfriend’s family had a friend who was a literary agent who handled mostly science fiction. I got in touch with him and sent him some short stories. He said they were good, but he couldn’t really sell short stories — did I have a novel he could see. I told him I was just finishing a novel that I would send to him as soon as possible. I lied. I quickly wrote SEDUCTIONS in the next few months and sent it to him. He liked it and said he’d do what I could. …
RayGarton.u says to (02:20): A month later, he called and said he’d sold it. This was in 1983 when horror was HOT, and publishers were snatching up any horror they could find — which is where LUCK comes in. I was in the right place at the right time. I caught a wave and have been riding it ever since.
RayGarton.u says to (02:21): Kim, I’ve never had a decent website that’s been maintained for more than a couple of months. I now have a MySpace page, which HAS helped — it has been a great tool. I’m going to have a website in the next few months, if all goes well. I am computer ignorant, so I’ve got someone else who’s going to slap it up and run it for me. I hope that actually happens.
RayGarton.u says to (02:22): I am almost embarassed to tell the story of how I got started. I had been writing all my life up to that point …
RayGarton.u says to (02:22): And I always knew I would be a writer. It’s just what I was. But how it happened is anticlimactic and not at all typical, and it often pisses people off.
petralee.u says to (02:23): What about now.? Obviously the market is different for horror, and although I would agree that it’s still a bit of who you know, but do you find that making it in the short story venue is the best way to start out? I guess I am wondering if the best way to do it now is to get some pro short story markets under your belt, in order to increae yo
petralee.u says to (02:24): your chances of selling your novel.
RayGarton.u says to (02:25): I honestly don’t know what works best now. Short stories are so painfully neglected these days. They don’t get the attention or respect they deserve. I don’t know how much short stories will contribute to writing a novel. There are so many novelists today who couldn’t write a short story if you held a gun to their heads.
RayGarton.u says to (02:26): Since I sold my first book in 1983, publishing has been transformed. It’s no longer the same business, not even remotely. The only thing that remains the same is the involvement of these things we call books.
petralee.u says to (02:26): I kinda thought that was the case, but I always felt that was the right track to go. I still feel pulled towards the short story venue. Adn although I am still trying to finish a novel I no longer beleive in, I hate to leave it unfinished.
RayGarton.u says to (02:26): Had I not sold SEDUCTIONS when I did and started out NOW, I’m not sure I’d ever sell a word. It’s SO scary out there right now. Publishing is now run in almost the exact same way Hollywood is run. They used to be very different …
RayGarton.u says to (02:27): Publishing was made up of companies run by families who really were interested in books, in good writing, innovation, freshness. Yes, there were trends, as in any other business, but the book was the thing. Now, they’re more interested in what they can put on the COVER of the book, more interested in the possibility of a SERIES of books. Can you write this book again about a dozen times? If not, go away.
RayGarton.u says to (02:28): You no longer believe in the novel you’re writing, Petra? Why is that?
petralee.u says to (02:28): Not quite sure. I have been trying to write it so long that I feel it’ss stagnant and old.
RayGarton.u says to (02:29): Ah, yes, I’ve experienced that.
petralee.u says to (02:29): Good, than i am not losing my mind
RayGarton.u says to (02:29): No, that happens. Sometimes you can be working on something so long you lose all perspective.
ELWilliams.u says (02:34):
So, publishing is a popularity contest. What’s hot, ala Keene?
Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:43): On the similarity to Hollywood, was it from the houses that you started writing the sequels? What about Folks? That’s from a specialty press isn’t it? And surely, you didn’t have a sequel in mind when you wrote Live Girls, or am I an idiot?
RayGarton.u says to (02:44): Back when I wrote LIVE GIRLS, I was vowing I would NEVER write a sequel because in general, I hate sequels. For nearly twenty years, readers, and even some editors, prodded me to write a sequel to LG. I finally did one. No, I did not have a sequel in mind. THE FOLKS …
RayGarton.u says to (02:45): was written sort of as a lark. It turned out to be a lot more popular than I expected (it was published by Cemetery Dance, small press). I got an idea for a sequel, wrote it, and about fourteen years later, Cemetery Dance published it (they measure time differently than everyon else). It’s gotten a great response from readers. And I had an idea for a third one, so …
RayGarton.u says to (02:45): I’m writing it. Even though I killed just about everyone in the second one. I’m cheating a little … turns out not everybody is dead.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (02:45): was it all a dream? that worked well in Dallas?
RayGarton.u says to (02:46): Ha! No, it was just not revealed EXACTLY who died and who didn’t at the end of 2.
petralee.u says to (02:49): Along the same lines of different houses, what are some of the other houses that have published you, besides Leisure and CD?
RayGarton.u says to (02:50): My first publisher was Pinnacle, then Avon, then Simon & Schuster. I’ve also been published by Bantam, Villard, and a couple of others.
petralee.u says to (02:50): Simon and Schuster is good!
RayGarton.u says to (02:51): Yes, S&S was great.
RayGarton.u says to (02:52): I wasn’t with S&S longer because I was young and very, very stupid.
RayGarton.u says to (02:52): I followed LG up with a book called CRUCIFAX.
RayGarton.u says to (02:53): In it, there’s a scene in which my villain Mace, who has a three-foot-long tongue, performs a cunnilingual abortion on a teenage girl. Then he eats the fetus.
RayGarton.u says to (02:53): My editor at the time was very pregnant.
RayGarton.u says to (02:53): When she read that scene, she went through the roof.
RayGarton.u says to (02:53): “This scene WILL NOT be in this book!” she shouted at me. She was really offended. Hated it.
RayGarton.u says to (02:53): I went to my agent, Richard Curtis, assuming he would back me up.
RayGarton.u says to (02:54): Richard said, “I’m afraid I kind of agree with her. The scene is brutal and ugly, which is fine … but it’s unnecessary. It does not move the story forward. It’s just there to be disgusting.”
RayGarton.u says to (02:54): Incensed, I threw a tantrum.
RayGarton.u says to (02:54): But in the end, I had to water the scene down (it was published in its entirety in the small-press limited hardcover).
RayGarton.u says to (02:54): As a result of that incident, I left Richard.
RayGarton.u says to (02:55): Stupid, stupid, STUPID mistake.
RayGarton.u says to (02:55): He was (and is) a great agent, a very BIG agent, one of the best and most respected.
RayGarton.u says to (02:55): And over the years, I have come to see that he was right. The editor wanted the scene out just because she didn’t like it — it had nothing to do with story. But Richard was exactly right. And what makes me look even MORE stupid …
RayGarton.u says to (02:56): … is the fact that I’ve always said I don’t write gore and grue just for the sake of gore and grue, that it’s an important part of the story. In that case, that’s EXACTLY what I was doing, writing the gore for gore’s sake. I didn’t see that then because I was young, stupid, and drunk. But I see it now.
RayGarton.u says to (02:56): Back in 2000, I went crawling back to Richard on hands and knees.
RayGarton.u says to (02:57): I told him he was right, I was wrong, and if he’d take me back, I would listen to everything he ever said and he would always be right and I was scum, and will you please be my agent again? He happily and graciously took me back. The years between leaving him and going back were awful. There are a lot of very bad agents out there, and I had a few of them.
RayGarton.u says to (02:58): He’s a great guy, very kind, extremely fair. I love him.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:01): How does somebody go from a “grandfather of splatterpunk” to a YA writer?
RayGarton.u says to (03:01): As my wife says, “Just don’t get it on the keyboard, dammit!”
RayGarton.u says to (03:01): Yeah, that was weird, Sam. I kind of fell into that.
RayGarton.u says to (03:02): It started with the Nightmare on Elm St. novelization I did, which was handed to me by Dave Schow, who had too much on his plate at the moment. It was being published for a teen market. I was afraid if I used my real name, they might look up my other stuff, which isn’t for young readers, so I came up with Joseph Locke.
RayGarton.u says to (03:03): Elm St. led to a chance to do a YA thriller. I did, and as a result, I ended up writing quite a few at Bantam.
RayGarton.u says to (03:03): The YA thrillers led to YA TV tie-ins like SABRINA THE TEENAGE WITCH and THE SECRET WORLD OF ALEX MACK, and the book that I see as the crowning achievement of entire career …
RayGarton.u says to (03:03): … the novelization of the Nickelodeon movie GOOD BURGER.
petralee.u says to (03:06): Was it hard to switch from writing adult to YV?
RayGarton.u says to (03:07): It wasn’t NEARLY as hard as I expected it to be. I just cleaned up my language and refrained from erotica.
petralee.u says to (03:08): I tried writing childrens books, but they always took a morbid turn…couln’t do it.
RayGarton.u says to (03:08): The deadlines for the YA books were pretty tight. I’ve since gone back and looked at some of them and they’re really pretty awful in my opinion. I’d like to rewrite every last oneof them.
RayGarton.u says to (03:08): Morbid is not undesirable in childrens’ books.
RayGarton.u says to (03:08): These day, it’s practically a requirement.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:08): I’d argue always has been…Hansel and Gretel
petralee.u says to (03:08): The way I was writng them was definitely a no-no
RayGarton.u says to (03:08): Yes, Sam, I agree.
RayGarton.u says to (03:09): That’s not a bad thing. Most of King’s early stuff had kids, and he wrote children BEAUTIFULLY. It was one of his strong points back then.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:10): you touched on it a bit, but I’m curious about rewrites….you had to finish Bestial so fast, you couldn’t have done much rewriting. Do you have a technique for this? Do you try to edit as you write?
RayGarton.u says to (03:11): My technique when writing BESTIAL was — don’t look back, and pray.
RayGarton.u says to (03:11): I wrote BESTIAL so fast that I hardly had time to think about it.
RayGarton.u says to (03:13): I absolutely HAD to have it in my editor’s computer when he came to work on the morning of Tuesday, September 2. I finished it that Saturday night. I took the rest of the time to read it and do as much editing as I possibly could. I e-mailed it to him very early on Tuesday morning. I had no time for a rewrite in this case. In most cases …
RayGarton.u says to (03:14): … I do a lot of rewriting and editing as I go along. I find it very difficult to describe my process in a way that makes sense because I’ve been doing this so long, I don’t even think about it anymore. As I write, I move forward in the book, stop, do some reading and editing and rewriting, write some more, stop, repeat.
ELWilliams.u says (03:14): How many words did it come in at?
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:14): 100,800
RayGarton.u says to (03:14): It was 418 typed doublespaced manuscript pages … however many words that is.
RayGarton.u says to (03:14): Thank you, Sam.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:15): No problem, I was trying to figure the math on that myself
RayGarton.u says to (03:15): And it’s probably the wildest, funniest horror novel I’ve written. It’s really a horror comedy more than a straight horror novel.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:15): Well, the prologue is defintely fucked up…not cunnilingus abortion fucked up, but pretty fucked up
RayGarton.u says to (03:15): The climax involves a werewolf orgy in a Seventh-day Adventist church, a bunch of machine gun-toting ex-convicts, and sterling silver cutlery.
kdespins.u says to (03:16): werewolf orgy in a church? I’m sold!
kdespins.u says to (03:18): When does Bestial come out
RayGarton.u says to (03:18): I think my favorite part, though, was the werewolf-baby birth scene in the ER. Have you ever seen the ’70s movie IT’S ALIVE? Kinda like the opening of that flick.
RayGarton.u says to (03:18): April of 2009.
RayGarton.u says to (03:18): Read RAVENOUS first, though. You’ll enjoy BESTIAL more.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:18): Well, you hit that on the head, then, Ray…cuz that was the first thing I thought of.
RayGarton.u says to (03:19): I got a LOT of flack from readers and critics about the rapes in RAVENOUS, so I dropped that angle.
RayGarton.u says to (03:21): I tried VERY hard to make the rape scenes as ugly as possible — it was NOT my intention for them to be erotic in any way. And yet some people slammed me for doing that very thing.
ELWilliams.u says (03:21): Let me guess, Ray: did a lot of people complain about the dude spitting in the women’s faces when he raped them?
ELWilliams.u says (03:21): That’s what my wife complained about.
ELWilliams.u says (03:21): When she read it
RayGarton.u says to (03:21): The werewolf curse, or virus, is not spread through bites, as usual, it’s sexually transmited, and rape played a part in that in the first book.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:21): nice clarifcation, Erik
ELWilliams.u says (03:21): Figured I should
RayGarton.u says to (03:21): Actually, EL, no one complained about that — which surprised me.
RayGarton.u says to (03:22): Was her complaint that the guy did it, or that it was written that way? Just curious.
RayGarton.u says to (03:22): I mean, was it, “Oh, this guy is AWFUL!” or was it, ‘Oh, this writer is SICK!”
ELWilliams.u says (03:22): She thought it was “too much” after initially describing that’s the way he makes love.
ELWilliams.u says (03:22): Once was enough I guess
RayGarton.u says to (03:22): Ah, okay.
RayGarton.u says to (03:23): That, by the way, came from a former girlfriend who told me about an ex-boyfriend who did that to her. A famous ex-boyfriend, actually.
ELWilliams.u says (03:32): Since John isn’t here, I’ll ask for him: Is it okay if I post this chat on my blog
RayGarton.u says to (03:32): Yes, that would be. Thanks, Erik.
ELWilliams.u says (03:32): Well, in that case, I think we can rap this up.
ELWilliams.u says (03:32): Thanks Ray for coming.
Sam W Anderson.u says to (03:33): thanks a lot ray
petralee.u says to (03:33): Yes Ray….thanks for spending time with us.
kdespins.u says to (03:33): thanks!
RayGarton.u says to (03:34): Thanks a lot, everyone. I’m kind of sorry to see this end, because now I have to go watch THE LOVE GURU.
ELWilliams.u says (03:34): Sorry, too.
kdespins.u says to (03:34): why must you torture yourself?
RayGarton.u says to (03:34): Actually, I’m a fan of Myers, but I’ve heard awful things about this movie.
petralee.u says to (03:34): I’ve put it off for two days now.
kdespins.u says to (03:34): I saw the previews. That’s enough
RayGarton.u says to (03:35): I will leave you with something my late writer friend Francis Feighan once said about writing.
RayGarton.u says to (03:36): “The biggest dilemma a writer has to face every day is whether to write or masturbate.” There’s a lot of truth in that.
ELWilliams.u says (03:36): Nice
petralee.u says to (03:36): I find that to be true every day.
RayGarton.u says to (03:37): Thanks again. I hope to stay in touch with you guys. You’re fun.
